anytime something is going on i want to watch c-span because they typically have the best, most unbiased view of whatever is happening. if i want to get spun in a circle i will watch another news organization so i watch c-span. i will watch it on tv or watch on line. if something is going on or i want to know what's happening i always go to c-span. i don't know that i but i have a favorite show. for me it's anytime i need to know what's going on i know c-span is going to have the real story of what's really happening.

>> iranian president mahmoud amadinejad made his last speech to the u.n. general assembly today. he did not refer to his country is nuclear program or sanctions by western countries including the u.s.. this is a little more than a half an hour. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: on behalf of the general assembly i have the honor to welcome to the united nations his excellency mahmoud amadinejad president of the economic republic of iran

invited to address the assembly. [applause] 's been in the name of god, the compassionate the merciful, may peace and blessings be upon the greatness of -- he has chosen a companion and divine messengers. of the god hasten the emergence of your children. grant him good health and victory and make us his best companions and all those who attain to his reckless. mr. president excellencies and ladies and gentlemen i think the almighty god for having given me the chance to participate in speaking. we have gathered here to ponder and work together for building a better life for the entire human

community and for our nation's. comments from iran. the glory and beauty, the land of knowledge, wisdom and morality. the cradle of philosophy and mysticism, the land of compassion and life, the land of scientists, philosophers, and writers. [inaudible] i represent a great and proud nation that is a founder of human civilization and an inheritor of respected universal values. i represent a conscious nation

which is dedicated to the cause of freedom, peace and compassion, a nation that has experienced the agony and bitter times at the aggression and opposed wars and profoundly -- profound values. i am now here for the eighth time, in the eighth year of my service. in this assembly of sisters and brothers from across the world, to show to the world that my northern nation has a global vision and welcomes any effort intended to provide and promote peace, stability and tranquilite realized through harmony,

cooperation and joint management of the world. i am here to voice the divine and humanitarian message of learned men and women of my country to u.n. to you and to the whole world. a message that iran's great orator and poet presented to humanity in his eternal poetry. human beings are members of the hole in creations of one essence and soul. if one is inflicted with pain, other members -- i have talked in the past seven years about the current challenges, solutions and prospects for the future world. today i want to raise and

discuss such issues from a different perspective. thousands of years have passed since the children of adam. peace be upon him have started to settle down. people of different colors, language and traditions pursuing persistently to fulfill their aspirations to build another society for a more beautiful life blessed with lasting peace, security and happiness. despite all efforts made by russia's people and -- and the sufferings and pain by masses of people in the quest to achieve happiness and victory, the history of mankind except in rare cases is full of unfulfilled dreams and failures. imagine for a moment, had there

have been no -- this trust, malicious behaviors, with no one violating the rights of others, had the humanitarian values been viewed as the criterion for social dignity in place of affluence and consumerism, had humanity not experienced the dark age of many other periods and centers of power, not ended the knowledge and constructive thoughts, had the wars of crusade and the ensuing periods of slavery and colonialism not happened and had the inheritance of these dark periods follow the course on the premises of the humanitarian principles, had the first and second world wars in europe, the wars in korea, vietnam, africa about latin america and in the balkans not happened, and if instead of the occupation of palestine and imposition of a

faith government displacement and genocide of millions of people around the world, the truth behind these wars have been revealed based on justice. had saddam saddam hussein not invaded iran and had -- supported the rights of the iranian people instead of siding with saddam, the tragic incident of september 11 and the military actions against afghanistan and iraq that left millions killed in homeless had not happened, and if instead of killing the culprit into the seed without informing the world and the people of america and an independent fact-finding team had been formed to make the general public aware of the incident and therefore bringing to justice the perpetrators, had extremism or terrorism not

unused to secure political goals, had the arms been turned into pens and military expenditures been used to promote amity among nations, had ethnic religious or -- not been beaten and that differences have not been used for the purposes of advancing political agendas, have the right to criticize the hegemonic policies and actions of the world zionism been recognized to allow the world media to freely report and shed light on the realities instead of taking deceitful gestures, pending the sanctities and sacred rights of human human beings and divine messengers who as the purest and most compassionate human beings are the gift of your mighty to humanity, had the security

council not been under the domination of a limited number of governments, thus disabling the united nations to carry out its responsibilities on an equitable basis, the internatiinternati onal economic institutions have not been under pressure and allowed to perform their duties and functions by using their expertise based on fairness and justice, had the world capitalist not victimize the economies of nations in order to make up for their own mistakes, if integrity and honesty have not prevailed on the international relations and all nations and governments were treated equally and justly in the global effort to build and expand happiness for the entire mankind, and if other unfavorable situations have not occurred, in human life, imagine

how beautiful and pleasant our lives and how lovely the history of mankind would have been. let us take a look at the world situation today. indymac, the economic situation. poverty is on the rise and the gap is widening between the rich and the poor. millions of industrial countries have exceeded $63 million while the repayment of half of this amount is sufficient to eradicate poverty in the world. the economy is dependent upon consumerism and exploitation of all who serve the interest of a limited number of countries. the creation of paper assets by using influence and control over the world's economic centers constitutes the greatest abuse of history and is considered a

major contributor to global economic crisis. it has been reported that only 33 -- were printed by one government alone. development planning, based on the economy. that runs in a vicious circle creating an unhealthy and devastating conditions and it is a failed practice. b, the cultural situation. from the standpoint of the politicians who control the world power centers, moral principles -- not principles are rejected as defunct and outdated notions and an impediment to the congressman to their goals. they ultimately talk about their disbelief in the relevance of ethics to the political and social affairs. and indigenous culture of

centuries-old efforts of the nations reflecting the profound feeling of love towards beauty and which believes diversity and social dynamism are under constant attack and susceptible to extinction. individual social identity is being opposed to nations by organizing systematic destruction of identities. family and societies at the center emanating love and humanity has been seriously -- and its role is under decline. as a heavenly being a manifestation of the divine image and beauty and the main pillar of every society has been damaged and abused by the powerful. the human soul has been

frustrated and the essence of humankind humiliated and suppress. c, political and security situation. humanitarianism application of -- kind of position abhorrent stability and occupation to ensure economic interest and expand dominance over centers of the world have to be the order of the day. the arms race and intimidation by nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction by the hegemonic powers have become prevalent. generations of ultra-modern weaponry and to disclose armaments is now being used as the new language of threat against nations to force them into accepting a new air of hegemony. continual threats by the uncivilized zionists who resort to military action against our great nation is a clear example

of this bit of reality. the state of mistrust has casted shadow cast a shadow on the international relations and while there is no just authority to help resolve world conflicts. no one feel secure or safe and even those who have a stockpile, thousands of atomic bombs and other arms in their arsenals. the environmental situation, the environment as commonwealth and heritage of the entire humankind and that constant guarantor of man's survival has been seriously devastated as a result of irresponsible and excessive use of resources particularly by capitalists across the world. the situation that is caused massive drought, flood and pollution creating irreparable damage. dear colleagues and scientific knowledge and technology the

aspirations of our children have not yet been fulfilled. does anybody believe that the continuation of the current order is capable of bringing happiness for human society? today, everyone is discontent and disappointed that the current international order. dear colleagues, human beings do not deserve to be under continuing sufferings of the present situation. god of wisdom who loves all human beings has not ordained destiny for van tine. he is ordered human -- to make the best and most beautiful life on earth along with justice, love and dignity. we must therefore think of the solution. who is responsible for all these sufferings and failures? some people try to justify that everything is normal and a reflection of the wealth of putting the blame on nations as

responsible for all prevalent ills. it is the nations have succumbed to discrimination. it is the nations that surrender dictatorship and greed. it is the nations that except the hegemony of arrogant and expansionist powers. is the nations that are imposed by the tactics and most devices in a row for the result of a passing attitude to the inclination to live under the supremacy of the world's powers. these are the arguments raised by those who tend to blame nations for the unfavorable conditions in the world with the intention to justify the attitudes and disruptive behaviors of the ruling minority. these claims supposedly authentic, cannot be in any way justified in the continuation of the present oppressive international order.

indeed poverty is imposed on nations and powers and visions and goals are pursued either through dc-8 or resort to force. to justify their inhuman actions they propagate that vary based on the survival of the fittest. while in principle, most governments in nations are humble and submissive in the face of -- masses never want to expand their territories nor do they seek to obtain legendary wealth. they have no disputes among themselves and principles and have never played a role in the creation of any disastrous events in the course of history. i do not believe that muslims,

christians, jews, hindus and buddhists have any problems among themselves. all are hostile against each other. they get along together confidently and live together in an atmosphere of peace and amity. they are all devoted to the cause of justice, security and love. the general tendency of nations has always been to accomplish positive, and aspirations reflecting exalted human beauties and abilities. the current abysmal situation in the world and the abysmal incidence of history are humanely in the wrong management of the world and the self-proclaimed centers of power who have entrusted themselves to the devil. the order that is rooted in the anti-human -- of the slavery and the old and new colonialism are

responsible for poverty, corruption, ignorance and discrimination in every corner of the world. the current war order has several characteristics, some of it as follows. it is founded on materialism and that is why it is in no way bound to moral values. it has been shaped according to selfishness, deception, hatred and animosity. it leaves in classification of human beings in relation to other nations trampling upon the rights of others and the abomination. it seeks to expand its domination by spreading conflicts among ethnic groups and nations.

nations. aims to monopolize power, wealth, science and technology for a limited group. policies of the world are the main centers of power are based on the principle of domination and the conquering of others. these symptoms only seeks supremacy and are not in favor of peace indefinitely not of their nation. they are led to believe that those who spend hundreds of millions of dollars on election campaigns have the interest of the people of the world at their hearts despite what the political claim in a capitalist countries. the money that goes into the political campaign is nothing usually but -- parties that only represent a small number of people.

the real views of the masses have the least impact and influence on the big decisions especially those made about the domestic and foreign policies. in the united states and in europe. their voices are not heard, even if they constitute 99% of the society's. human and ethical values are sacrificed in order to -- and their willingness to listen to the demands of the people has become only a two at a time in election. the current world order is -- and based on injustice. distinguished friends and colleagues, what should be done and what is the way out of the current situation? there is no doubt that the world is in need of a new order and a fresh way of thinking, in order

in which man is recognized as god's supreme creation enjoying material and the spiritual qualities and possessing a divine nation filled with a desire to see justice. an order that aims to revive human dignity and believes in universal happiness and perfection. three, in order which is at peace, security and welfare for all walks of life around the globe. four, in order found upon trust in order. rulers must love -- five, a just and fair order in

which everybody is equal before love and in which there is no -- leaders of the world must regard themselves as committed servants of the people, not their superiors. seven, authority. is a sacred gift from the people to their rulers. not a chance to amass power and wealth. mr. president, ladies and gentlemen, is it possible to have such an order without having everybody's contribution to the way the world is run? it is abundantly evident that he if all the people commit themselves to the bed measured principles and become sensitive to the international issues and participate in decision-making, their wishes will find a chance to be --

by raising collective -- joint global management becomes more vivid if the chances of its implementation increase. today, is the day of nations and will determine the future of the world. therefore together, we need to place our trust in god almighty and to stand against the minority with all our might so that they become isolated and can no longer decide the destiny of other nations. two, believe in god's bounty of blessings and mercy and seek it in the integration of human societies. governments emerging from the free will of nations must believe in their own ceaseless

capabilities and know that they can achieve victory if they vigorously fight the unjust order and defend human rights. three, pave the ground for the joint global management by insisting upon justice as strength, unity and friendship and expand economic social cultural and political directions in a specialized organization. four, care about the interest of all the people of the world and join hands to reform the current structure of the united nations with joint efforts in coordination. it is necessary to know that the nation belongs to all nations thus the existence of this among the members is a great -- too well. the existence of this monopoly in the united nations is in no

way acceptable. five, has more coordinated efforts to generate and firmly establish the language needed for designing the required structures of the joint global management, filled with justice, love, freedom and amity. participation in global management is the basis of lasting peace. the second-largest transregional group after the united nations held its 16th summit in tehran with the motto of joint global management, cognizant of the importance of this issue and the shortcomings of the current mismanagement and the emergence of crises and problems afflicting the world today. during the summit, participating heads of state and

representatives of more than 120 quandaries underscored the necessity of a more serious and effective participation of all nations in the global management. fortunately, we are now at a historic juncture. on one hand, marxism is no longer around and particularly eliminated from the management system, and on the other, capitalism is bogged down in a self-made quagmire and it has indeed reached a deadlock and does not seem to be able to come up with any noteworthy solution to the various economic political security and cultural problems of the world. the movement is proud to once

again emphasized a rightfulness of this historic decision to reject the poles of power and the unbridled hegemony ruling the world. on behalf of the members of the nonaligned movement i would rightly invite all countries of the world to play a more active role in making it possible for everybody to contribute to the global decision-making, and the processes in the world. the need to remove the structure of barriers and encourage universal participation in global management has never been greater before. the united nation lacks the efficiency to bring about the required changes. if this inefficiency proceeds, nation will lose hope in the global structure to defend the rights. the united nations is

restructured international -- in the spirit of collective cooperation, the understanding of the night of nations will be damage. the united nations has been created with justice and reinstitution of the universal rights has been practiced and engulfed by this -- preparing a supportive ground for the domination of a few powerful countries. consequently un's inefficiency has been on the rights. rise. moreover the existence of the middle of writing right in the mobilization of power have made it nearly impossible to defend the rights of the nation's. ..

for all, though a great and historic missing can be accomplished. it does not left us alone and this mission. and i said if it doesn't happen, then i will be contradictory to its existence. god has promised us, a man of kindness come a man who lets people an absolute justice, a man who is perfect beyond being, a man who a calm and the company of jesus christ. are you saying the inherent

potential of all the wealthy men and women abominations, and i repeat, the inherent potential of all the men and women abominations comment he will leave humanity and to achieving glorious and eternal ideals. the arrival of the arguments wal-mart a new beginning and a new resurrection. what beginning of peace. his arrival will be the end of operation, immorality, poverty and the beginning of justice, love and empathy. he will calm and he will calm pure ignorance, superstition, prejudice, by opening the gates he will establish proband and he will prepare the ground for the

active and constructive participation of all in the global management. he will calm to grant kindness, home freedom and dignity to all of humanity as a gift. he will calm some mankind will take the pleasure of these humans the men in the company of other humanities, he will calm and be joined with love to be purified at the service of security and welfare, happiness, well-being and peace for all. he will calm to return all children of adam, irrespective of their skin color to their inherent origin after a long history of separation and

division, blink command to eternal happiness and joy. the arrival of the savior, jesus christ and the righteous by mankind, not by force or invading worse, but through an awakening and developing kindness than everyone. their arrival will bring a new light in the cold and frozen, harsh body of the world. he will bless humanity, strength that puts on and to our ignorance, poverty and more embassies being of the main he puts an end to the winter of ignorance for humanity. now we can see and weekend fun

for 3 cents and the souls will brief, the string that has just begun and doesn't belong to a specific race, ethnicity, nation or division. a spring that will soon unleash all the territories in asia, europe, africa and america. he will be the spring of all, digestive speaker, freedom lover and a follower of heavenly profit. he will be the freedom of humanity and the greater of all. let us join hands in clear the way for his eventual arrival with empathy and cooperation in harmony and unity. let us march to salvation to the just instead of humanity today. long live this supreme. long live.

[applause] [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: on behalf of the general assembly, i wish to thank the president of the islamic public upper ran for the same many just made. may i request representatives to remain seated while we greet the president. [inaudible conversations] >> while iranian president

ahmadinejad made his last speech to the u.n., egypt's new president mohamed morsi gave his first speech to the general assembly. in his half-hour remarks he talked about his selection, palestine and violence in the area. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: -- and they tend to address the assembly. [applause] may not >> translator: in the name of the god, the compassionate one, peace and prayers beyond his profits. mohammed. the prophets whom we love, we

race -- respect to them and be opposed to those who oppose him, the prayers of my love be on him. god describes in in the koran as the man of great ideal to you. also sad that we have sent to you for those who worship god. our peace and prayers are on him, his soul and all those who followed him until the day of doomsday. may god give me the correct words to address you, you people who have been created, made tribes to get to know each

other, the most signified a view to god is the most amoral empire. the president of the general assembly. mr. don king to come, secretary-general of the united nations. presidents, heads of governments, ladies and gentlemen. i salute you, peace and prayers be upon you and islam. mr. president, it gives me pleasure to congratulate you and your family country and the presidency of the general assembly in his confession. i wish you success in your

mission. i'd also like to express my sincere appreciation to the ambassador into the brotherly state of qatar for the outstanding procession. i would also like to pay tribute to the secretary-general of the nation for his continued assets to preserve the role of the organization. i assure a few of the chip supports to our efforts that he makes. mr. president, my presence here today in addressing the general assembly has multiple significance. i am the first egyptian civilian

president enacted democratically and freely following a great peaceful resolution, he used by the entire world. this revolution established a genuine person through the oscars of our egyptians inside and outside egypt's and with the grace of god. today, every egyptian shares a sense of self-confidence, allowing all of them to claim a higher moral ground. we have taken several steps on the road towards establishing

the modern state, the egyptians aspire to seek. one that is in june with the president, based on the rule of law, democracy and respect for human rights, a constitutional state that does not compromise their values of family and headed in the souls of all egyptians. a state that seeks justice, truth, freedom and dignity and social justice. the egyptian revolution that was found at under the legitimacy that iraq resigns, and

indigenously that i represent before you today was not the product of a fleeting moments, but it brief appraisal. nor was it the product or wind of change of spring, rather this revolution and all the ones preceding and following it in the region were triggered by the long struggle of genuine, natural movement that sought a life of prize for all citizens. it is thereby reflecting the wisdom of history and send in a clear warning to those attempting to place their interests before those of the people's.

mr. president, the division of the new ages that we strive to realize for our nation and god willing also constitute the fame of action we present to the world and which should guide our cooperation with the international community and a spirit of equality and mutual respect and campaign nonintervention in the affairs of other states, as well as the implementation at inter-lateral principal agreements and conventions. today we retrace our commitment to them, particularly the united nations charter with egypt to supervise and drafting. through continued work to settle

problems and the root causes without relinquishing the principles of law or well-established values, which have compromised can lead to grave consequences for the international community if those who are rational and reasonable in the world do not say key. the first issue, which the world must make all after to resolve on the basis of justice and dignity of the palestinian cause. long decades have passed since the palestinian people expressed a desire to restore all the rides and to build the independent state of jerusalem,

despite the continued struggle of the people throughout legitimate means to a team they are right and the acceptance of the representatives of the resolutions adopted by the international community resolving the problems. despite all of this, his international legitimacy remains unable until now to achieve the hopes and aspirations of the palestinian people. these resolutions remained far from being an demented. the fruits of dignity and freedom must not remain far from the palestinian people.

it is shameful that the free world would accept that a party in the international community may continue to deny the right of a nation that looks to independence over decades, no matter what justification, it is also shameful that they continue in the territory of the people come in the palestinian and prevarication continuo of implementing international revolution. from the premise of defending true freedom and for my duty to support our palestinian brothers and sisters, i bring the national community before its responsibility which required a just and comprehensive peace and

putting an end to all forms of occupation on arab lands and the implementations in the national resolutions. i recall for immediate movement, serious movement as of now to put an end to colonization, occupation and settlement and the operation of the identity of jerusalem. i go for peace that would establish an independent palestinian state come a sovereign palestinian state, a piece that would achieve the security and stability long sought by the people of the region on the same basis i assure you of each of salt support to any course of action palestine decides to father the united nation. i call upon you all, just as you have supported the resolutions,

i call upon you to lend her support to the palestinians and their endeavor to retain the full and legitimate rights of the people struggling to teach regain his freedom and establish his independence in the states. an independent state of palestine, based on the inalienable rights of the palestinians, we will continue to lurk with the palestinian people supporting them until they get all the rights of their free will for the palestinians and every constituent of the palestinian people. mr. president, while we are attacking here in this international forum, we have to address a question that remains of social concern for the whole world, namely the bloodshed and the tragedy, the human tragedy in syria, the bloodshed that

must be stopped immediately as our main concern, our first concern come the blood that is being shed on the land of the beloved syria is far too dear to continue to be shed this day and night. the syrian people, dear to our heart and the hearts of every egyptian we hope for a future of freedom and dignity. this has been the essence of the initiative i propose in the holy city of mecca during last ramadan. and i have reiterated on subsequent occasions to avoid the worst, to avoid the worst

and to prevent the continued suffering of the people on the conflict turning into a full-scale civil war god for bid with negative effects extending beyond syria and its immediate neighbors. egypt, lower to three other countries involved in our initiatives has filed pleadings that have shown there are many areas of commonality. we will continue to work to put an end to the suffering of the syrian people and provide with an opportunity to choose freely the regime that best represents them. after this regime, the current regime comes to the nines, the

regime that kills its people day and night, after this regime comes to an end, the syrian people will choose with their own free will a regime that represents and please syria and its right place among democratic countries. so that it can continue to contribute to its arab comment march and it's international role based on solid legitimate foundations. i would like to emphasize here that this initiative is open to all. it is not just the purview of this starting parties, but it is open to all in this crisis. this crisis is responsible for the suffering. we all have to move the world

over to put an end to this tragedy. it is the tragedy of the age and our duty is to end this tragedy. egypt is committed to pursuing the sincere effort it has been making to put an end to the tragedy in syria was an arab, regional and international framework. a framework that preserves the unity of this brotherly state, it will involve all sections of the syrian people without discrimination based on race, religion or sex. it will prepare the danger of foreign ministry integration, which we oppose of course. egypt is also committed to supporting the mission of

mr. brahimi, special representative of the event and the league of arab states and the current efforts of unifying the syrian opposition and encouraging a to propose a comprehensive unified vision to encourage the opposition to propose a unified vision, a comprehensive vision of this study demographic, organize transfer of power in a manner that preserves the right of all constituencies in syria and maintains the essential place as in the new syria. the new serious after the new egypt god willing. i cannot say here to reiterate

that egypt will work so that this arab nation will occupy its rightful place in the world, this nation, this arab nation is an integral -- an integral component to beat europe's vision of its national security of the larger homeland that extends from the arab goal of to the atlantic ocean. and there is a huge field for the opportunity of cooperation and interaction with the countries of the whole world. egypt also considered extremely valuable contribution of the arab world with the wider islamic sphere, this vital necessity to promote a joint action within the organization of islamic corporation. egypt will make every effort to

ensure that the next conference due early next year and a jet, egypt will make sure this will strengthen mutual understanding between islamic countries and the rest of the world and will set in motion the principle of the civilization to effeminate the causes of misunderstanding and ploy by fanatics on both sides to wrongly prove the difference is great. to achieve political goals completely unrelated to the ideals, the noble ideals of religion. mr. president, our brothers and sisters need more than ever today, your support.

this country seeks to achieve stability and development and works on building healthy and i'd love ovations for south sudan. this nascent state, which we believe this qualifies along with our brother the sudan to become a cooperation between the arab world and african countries. sudan has made a great sacrifice in its quest for peace and stability. it has committed itself to the comprehensive peace agreement, otherwise known as the cpa. it was first to recognize the nationstates of sudan. but let me be frank, if it has

not received the support it deserves, it is now high time for the international efforts to rally in support of the sudan and work on settling difference is between its rival countries for all outstanding issues. mr. president, the success of the difficult tradition of faith the somali people have come to by electing his excellency bache road -- after a very difficult. i call upon the united nations to continue supporting the efforts made by the somali government and to fend off those

who seek to hinder the affairs and to achieve stability to achieve the aspirations of the somali people for a better future. mr. president. the principles of justice and righteousness are linked to achieving security and stability in the world, particularly in the middle east over many years, some have wrongfully thought to pace the ability to protection tyranny. somehow the last applauded their bad deeds. but now that the people of the region have regained their freedom, they will not -- they will not tolerate and they will not allow being deprived of the

right, whether by their own leaders are outside forces. the will of the people, especially in our region no longer tolerates the continued annexation of any country -- and a country to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and the nonapplication of the safeguards regime to their nuclear facilities, especially if this is coupled with irresponsible policies for arbitrary. in this regard the international community of preemptive mess or the chance to legitimize it is in itself a serious matter and must be firmly confounded to avoid the prevalence of the law.

.. before the end of the current year, 2012 with the participation of all concerned parties without exception. let me say perfectly clear, perfectly clearly, the only solution is to get rid of nuclear weapons. there is no other alternative. all weapons of mass destruction. meanwhile, we also have to

exercise the rights of all countries of the world, all countries in the world and all countries of the region. this of course including egypt and. they have a right to the peaceful use of nuclear energy within the framework of the mpt and with a commitment, a commitment by all of these countries to honor their obligations in this respect, providing the necessary guarantees the countries of the region so as to remove any suspicion surrounding the intentions of these programs. mr. president, truth and dignity encompass in our view the framework that governs international relations. there is snow doubt that a

review of these international relations will undoubtedly reveal the extent of injustice inflicted upon the african countries. i don't think i needs to go through the previous commitments that were made in this hall to both the development and economic growth in africa and through aid and investment. the world has a responsibility. the world has a responsibility to support the african efforts. beyond mere promises through providing the assistance needed to restore the treasures of african countries, restore them over executive hearings the last of which was once some form of supporting unjust regimes would assist in achieving a fake

stability that protects their interests. while these regimes were spreading corruption, and smuggling the wealth of these countries outside the homeland. i am aware that achieving these goals can only be done through the active participation of the leaders of this continent and the resumption of the responsibility, something that we as -- are ready and willing to do in our quest for a better future for our country. 2-d -- today, we as africans have to achieve for our country a new set of ambitious goals that would ensure africans are on the right track to development and achieve

aspirations for a better future and a re-participation for africa and the international economic order. and i assure you that egypt will continue to work with his brothers and sisters in africa. egypt is ready to cooperate with any stakeholder or partner in or outside of the country through the exchange of expertise and practices.

[speaking in native tongue] >> translator: we look at the national system and feel that we need to work seriously to repair this international order based on the principles and maintain its credibility. this is a legitimate demand of the people of the nations that expand themselves and would like to participate in a new world for a new future for its sons and daughters. the effective role of the general assembly as a demographic forum that would express the will of the international community and the change in the structure of the security council which still represents an era that is

completely opposite as far as our country is concerned, both must be reformed, must be reformed as the utmost priority that has to be dealt with the necessary seriousness. i would like to emphasize the need for the united nations to support issues of women and children. and i have proposed during the movement a new initiative to establish -- solely dedicated to youth issues, giving particular attention to the education, training, employment and improving youth participation in political life.

this would -- generations to achieve. egypt stresses that the international system will not be fixed as long as we have double standards. we expect from others, as they expect from us, that they respect our specificities and religious references and not seek to impose concepts or cultures that are not acceptable or to politicize certain issues and use them as a pretext to intervene for others, but muslims and migrants are going through a number of countries in

a certain number of regions of the world and discrimination in violation of their human rights and officious campaigns against what they hold sacred is unacceptable. this is unacceptable, the behavior by some, some individuals and the insults heard on the profit of islam mohammed is rejected. we reject this. we cannot accept it, and we will be the opponents of those who do this. we will not allow anyone to do this by word or deed. this runs against the most basic principles of the organization where we meet today.

unfortunately, today it has now acquired a name which is islamaphobia. we all have to work together. we must join hands in confronting these regressive ideas that hinder cooperation among us. we must move together to confront extremism and discrimination and insight to hatred on the basis of religion or race. the general assembly as well as the security council has the main responsibility and addressing the tsunami that is starting to have complications that clearly affect international peace and security.

the absent of these that i have referred to were recently released as part of an organized campaign against islamic sanctities are unacceptable and require -- we have a responsibility in this international gathering how we can protect these nations from instability and hatred. egypt expects freedom of expression, freedom of expression that is not used to incite hatred and anyone. not a freedom of expression that targets a specific religion or a specific culture. a freedom of expression that tackles extremism and violence, not the freedom of expression that deepens ignorance and

disregards others. but we also, as we have said before, and we also stand firmly against the use of violence in expressing objection to these obscenities. mr. president, before i conclude, i must state the severity and recurrence of financial and economic crises must lead us to review the international economic decision-making process that affect peoples that do not participate in their preparations. yet, they're the first to bear that than it could have consequences and growth, trade and the environment as well as the social fabric of society.

that is the result of unfair trade rules and conditionality's imposed on the transfer of equality. and access to -- [inaudible] there is a need for a new global economic government. i say there is an urgent need for a new global economic governments centered on aiming at cooperation between partners and developments on the basis of mutual benefit and interest. mr. president, i have laid before you our vision, a vision shared by the egyptian people. i have also intended to briefly

outline egypt's views on the main issues, the vision of the young, a vision of the women and the men in egypt on all important -- to the rest of the world. in the middle east and africa and the world, i am sure that the united nations is capable of its intended role of addressing all global challenges through dialogue, understanding and joint cooperation in accordance with the principles of international law. egypt post-revolution will spare no efforts in dealing sincerely with all the members of of disorganization. we will always remain at the forefront of international

endeavor in achieving freedoms for all peoples as well as social justice for all peoples including security and stability for all of our countries. i look forward, i look forward with optimism, great optimism, and i see the call for prevailing all over this world peace that is based on justice, a piece that will give all the right, a piece that does not discriminate between one and another for any reason. this peace will never prevail until we all cooperate, till we all realize that we are all equal. and that we share many aspirations and ambitions, a

peace whose message i bring to you, a peace of rights and justice, stability and development, interdependence, love and mutual respect. i don't believe that this is difficult for all of us if we extend our hand, our hand of cooperation and a sincere intention and a righteous work. god as our witness, we are all hopeful that we will see a better future, a better future for this world. i think you all and peace and prayers be upon you. [applause] >> see the first of a presidential debates next wednesday live on c-span, c-span

radio and on line at c-span.org.

>> i was always shocked as anyone who spent a lot of time around campaigns and most of the people i talked to could explain to me. how do you know that what you do that? at some point they did explain it or because they had some kind of rules that weren't really based on the research and so i sort of went around campaigns with some degree of skepticism about a lot of the practices that were taking place and the way people were spending money and devoting time and resources. and is nsa learned about people starting and academia who were doing experiments and raven -- randomized controlled trials adopted by people in the political world and learned more about all the data and targeting based on basically revolutionized campaigns in the

last decade, a major generational shift and in addition to all of the sort of new forms of research changing the way things operated that you have this kind of tension between a lot of the old practices and the new empirical movement. >> up next, form on libya security and how the government is dealing with malicious, tribal conflicts and supporters of former president qadhafi. from the carnegie endowment for international peace, this is nearly two hours.

>> good afternoon and welcome to the carnegie endowment. a senior associate in the eastern program here. i am very happy to -- that we were able to bring you a group of knowledgeable speakers about the situation in libya. as we all know, libya has very much been in the headlines in the last few days, but not necessarily -- what emerges from the news coming out of libya is a very confusing situation. on the other hand, the government seems to have little control, very little control on what's going on in the country to the point where they could not prevent an attack on the consulate in benghazi. at the same time the government that is extremely interested in

incorporating with united states, extremely insisted to behave the way the government should do in a situation of this sort. in addition, something -- we see that they take a position in favor of government control. and the militias and the problem of the malicious. we are lucky to have with us -- i think that both fred and could deal with their and i think peter just came out. >> in august. >> in august, k.. i thought it was more recently. they all have spent over the years a considerable amount of

time in libya and they are extremely well acquainted with the situation. let me briefly introduce them, starting on my right with fred wary. fred is the latest addition to the middle east program here. he is a senior associate in the program and he specializes on, he specializes on security issues, and not only libya but also covers the gulf countries. i think you should look forward to a lot more work from him on the gulf countries. to my extreme right is peter kohl who is a senior analyst in libya for the regional crisis group. he is the author of two reports, both of them for the icg and

holding libya together and the security challenges after qadhafi. finally to my left is -- those of you who attend our meetings know he has been a frequent speaker on libya. he is the president of the american libyan counsel, a nonprofit organization dedicated to strengthening u.s. libyan relations. and he is a senior at visor for the u.s. department of defense and most importantly for our purposes is that he travels frequently to libya. so without further ado, we are going to go in the order when should i have and just the people and we will start with fred and then move on. >> thank you very much. is really a symptom of a larger

problem of the government's instability and marginalization in the eastern region of libya. it is known as sarah nay labarga in every. comprises the three territories you see on the map, the eastern half of the country. this is a periphery of libya but in the eyes of easterners especially people in benghazi, the key should not be the periphery. it should not be on the margins of governance. they see this region is really the engine of historical change in the country that was really overturned by qadhafi. political resources and economic resources. after all this was a region with the defeat of the dynasty and where omar muqtedar waged his battle against the -- and trying from eastern families and of course there was epicenter of the 2011 revolt and most recently now his been the

epicenter of this revolt against the malicious. everyone in libya knew that the militias were a problem that it was the people in benghazi gets it matters into their own hands and really force the government's hand against these malicious. there's there is a saying in benghazi when i was there that when benghazi sneezes the rest of libya catches a cold and i think that really speaks to the grievances of this region and the militia problem is part of it. the oil factor is another issue. nearly two-thirds of the oil comes from this area and what is a very fractured security landscape and the power throughout clip of -- libya was especially acute in the eastern part especially in benghazi and we saw a period of attacks and a worsening security situation really since the july 7 election, rocket attacks, thwarted car bombs, assassinations of qadhafi air officials and militias running around in the open and of course the culmination of this was the

attack on the consulate. now in my paper, i define eastern instability for the eastern problems into really three categories. the first is sort of the move toward economy or federalism, these grievances. in many cases this is a concern but somewhat from the scene after the july 7 election as the second issue is salafi militancy. obviously this is a huge concern and i will talk about that. the third is the ethnic fighting down in the southern town of -- which lies to the south of the eastern coastal cities. this is a conflict that is really reverberated across libya and affects the eastern regions. let me speak to this issue of autonomy and localism in this region. prior to the elections there was a great deal of fear that this

region would boycott the elections, that was pushing for autonomy. there was in fact an organization, the barker council that instigated the closure of roads and they shut down oil terminals. the bottom line of the story is this movement really failed to attract a grassroots following. many of their tactics backfired and you saw huge public backlash against this movement. it was really manifested in the elections and i think we can say the july 7 elections were an enormous success and really a referendum on national unity. that is not to say that the issue of federalism or localism or more broadly won't go away and the key to the success will be the constitutional process and the degree to which the constitution assigns powers to local authorities and principles principles -- principle authorities. the more worrisome problem is

that problem of salafi militancy and salafism is not a problem that is exclusive to the eastern part. you will recall recently there were a lot of salafi attacks out in the west in tripoli but this area seems to have a special residence -- residence for salafism. many of the long-standing -- from egypt, the ease was the scene of a horrific insurgency by the libyan islamic fighting group against the gadhafi regime during the 1990s. the militancy is we are seeing right now in libya by groups by the sharia indicated in the attacks, i'm on to argue this is really a symptom of a fracturing of the salafi movement in libya. after the revolution what you saw is many of the former libyan islamic fighting group's, people

like abdul akim and the brother of -- were veterans of the struggle against gadhafi and enter politics and ran as parliamentary candidates. there was a faction however that resisted integration and formed militias that have called for boycotting the elections and that is really trying to make their voice heard in libya. as i have argued in some articles this faction has really failed to get traction or to gain resonance in libyan society. they been obviously making a lot of noise about the elections in certain places like the serna and benghazi they have been trying to implement social mores and playing the arab-israeli card calling for support in gaza and sending volunteers to syria.

most recently saw them attacking sites across the country and of course they're playing the anti-u.s. anti-western card. attacking the red cross facilities and the benghazi consulate. all of these are symptoms i'm going to argue if a political movement that is not very mature and successful that is grasping or really flailing for relevance in this society, and you can argue that the consulate attack was really a symptom of this debate. ..

when they staged a rally in gaza and were with the aircraft were been slimed benghazi and the resolve videotape and they were calling the sharia. there's a huge counter protests by women's groups, ngos and pack your bags, this country is not afghanistan. who are you to have the way in political life in many of the strongest voices for women groups. you found this even in a place they turn him, which has long been described as a hot head of militancy, that was a thriving and she is seen in civil society. there's been numerous and scissor people at pushback there. an important conaway of against the militancy is the tribe.

there's been numerous instances as to my fieldwork of the tribes getting together after one of these militias overstepped their bounds and killed a member of a tribe. the tribes would get together and in one case chase the militia converted tribal members from joining the fallacy groups. i think it's important to recognize the self correct mechanism that we find that is unique to the dean society. we saw it really manifest this past weekend. this jacket simmering conflict in the east is the conflict between ethnic arab and bootstrap. i'm going to let peter talk about this because he covers taboo as part of the border problem. this is a simmering conflict, really as the gadhafi divided rule policy and it certainly

affected all of these banal of libya. let me conclude with some thoughts about the security sector and why this attack happened and where these militias came from and what the governments doing about it. what we saw i think over the past year and a half was a real faustian bargain by the provisional government, the ncc. it was his own belief in national army and really relied upon these militias, over 200 militias organized along regional lines to keep order and cut deals with them. it used them to project its authority. and certainly there was his attempt to divide militias into good militias, does that nominally fallen under the ministry of defense and tear and the so-called rogue militias

that lay outside of it. all of them were left to operate freely, they had their own headquarters, armories, issued to i.d. cards and had payrolls that kept people employed and they certainly had ready access to heavy weaponry that would allow them to conduct an attack like the one con lit within an hours notice they were out there operating. some have argued shatteringly perform the service function. they function as a neighborhood watch unit. they can hold traffic. they were operating as mafia like organizations, getting criminal enterprises in some of them as we see how dear islamist orientations. this was really problematic. the fundamental paradox that we find now is this going to be difficult for the government to

put this genie back in the bottle with these militias. the militias are really organized into the ad hoc antenna to enforce security during the transitional. i talk about the supreme security committee that were formed and attached to the ministry of interior and they really function like a national army across. they were simply luscious by another name nominally assigned the administrative interior. the supreme security communities have been poorly trained, allow the militias to pursue their own prerogatives. featuring the supreme security committee some of the triple dipping so they get payments from the committees, please send them an militias. police recently was a great deal of public outrage for not keeping order in the face of these attacks in tripoli that they were standing by or even

condoning these attacks. people were protesting the gnc demanded the leaders of the supreme security committee resigned. but they did is finance strike in the gnc retracted its demand. there is another group under the libyan show that falls under the ministry of defense. this is another attempt to co-opt militias into this force that is designed to quell throughout the country. what this offended at being is a shoddy security is parallel to the army. in many cases the libyan show those ended up flaming the complex meant that to suppress or mitigate. some of these shield forces include fallacy missions as part of the libyan shield for us going down to five. so clearly a priority for the new government not only in the

east, but i missed out is in the security vacuum and with that alternate over to you. >> thanks, fred. hi, i have been in libya for 12 or 13 months at the international crisis group during the fighting faith of the revolution i arrived in late july. and pretty much covering the entire transitional ntc or the transitional government. i am going to talk to you today about one of the other huge policy issues in libya today, which is the south and with that cross-border governments. so much the way you talk about militias and security and governments of retention on as well. i'm going to start off with talking about giving a few

obvious things to say and also why it why it is of interest to this audience in particular. it is a huge area. libya is an enormous country. it's an urbanized country and then you have a really enormous, something like 4.5 kilometers of borders. it takes about 24 hours, probably a little bit more to drive across the coast. takes a couple days to drive across equivalence in the south. it is an enormous place in parts of egypt, for example, they should be populated throughout, and the spaces in between towns. so the actual surveillance is really quite cute unsure and huge starting from the libyan

base. when you think about knuckling a missile is what happened after the revolution, which is nearly all libya is advanced, weapons cache a heartbroken that and ran for by anyone. i was in tripoli watching them doing it. they have gone to create these militias talked about and others have been treated and most but secularly and 2012, to work rebels in mollies used weapons they acquired in libya to arm an insurgency that took over the north, a country and expect to be succeeded in the military. the egyptian authority has problems at the intersection of weapons coming through they have been proven and shown to have weapons with ideas and they've

acquired in the last year. so it is very much a regionwide issue and possibly one of the biggest prize of small arms throughout the area we've seen in quite some time. the other major ratio and here as well as human trafficking. libya is one of the main hubs. marco perhaps be the second one. it's only about 600 kilometers to an island belonging to libya from samarra and tripoli and libya was a thinking to destiny may be 40,000 migrants coming from libya just to italy. there was an enormous spike and people trafficking drugs another challenge is that the european union had to deal with. so from a security policy

perspective are the big issues. but i'm not going to try to do is take a step back and talk about the history of the society itself and explain why these issues are going to be very intractable, where they've never been solved with cross-border trade and people are weapons and good for far longer than there has been a libyan state. the gadhafi government and some eyes is the lot along the maritime borders. it's very little to actually do that. you have to get into incentives to cross-border trafficking. serves take a step back, the south is -- you need to think about a few major at the groups in the south, tribal and ethnic

groups. in the southeast of the country, you can see it grew for a, a district to the martian border. there's a large ethnic group who are sub-saharan. there's something like 300,000 taboo across chad, sudan, libya and indonesia. something like 3% of the libyan population, but their system to majority. then you have further west you've got to froelich, why mention in the context of molly, 1.2 million spread across algeria,, mali and western libya. the slightly -- you can see a few times on the edge area border that are quite dominant.

the kufrah are african command that you also have a lot of arab tribes and groups. the soliman as well are arabs who lived in e.u. shatt and chad and they lived in the south as well. you have to want to follow who are one of libya's largest groups. the points are excellent, great. so it's not just a smuggling cross-border trafficking and issues do not contain to libya's ethnic minorities. they also pertain to the arab tribe is for.

so i want to talk now a little bit about smuggling economy itself. and they said that the vi you have a few options available to you. various state employment. you can go and become a police man or an army officer. you can have something like 400 or $300 a year -- a month doing that. posthumus him is one of the largest sources of employment. the tab you is they travel with camels spread into chad regularly. the other real option for you to make a living as trade. so smugly isn't really like that

kind of nefarious secret activity. it is quite opening. if you're a merchant and you have to deal with cross-border traffic, you have to trade across borders. you are going to become involved in some kind of -- you are going to negotiate borders and do it in a quasilegal wake because of the way things work. it is a structurally endemic problem. what also makes this structurally endemic is the way the social networks of the region work. your relationships, your marriage, everything about your life occurs with then the group throughout this large area. they don't actually marry within their family or their particular community anatomic than 10 days,

sort of an arab town might. they will marry someone from molly, summoned from a completely different claim that is socially the thing to do, it should pick someone to marry from very far away and the same goes for economic relationships as well. you are more likely to have closer relationships with someone thousands of kilometers away and someone in the next time down the road or in your same town. that is the social landscape that you have. what makes an even stronger if the elements of discrimination and marginalization of the taboo and the poor arab tribes. so that to say that a little bit as well. the taboo specifically, when libya was first and only citizenship survey was carried out, sort of a census of a that

green team of citizenship and the most taboo were either too nomadic or illiterate to participate in a survey. the same goes to nationalists as well. they had ambiguous citizenship and they have their citizenship issues manipulated. in the case of taboo, there is a decade-long series of wars with chad and which gadhafi tried to influence the direction of the country. and also at the same time, the strip. the libyan government at that time encouraged taboo to register that loses strip for their claim over the borderlands. when libya eventually lost their jurisdiction in 1894, with it an

enormous number of taboo -- i can't give you specific numbers because there hasn't been a doctoral research and the citizenship -- it was drafted that the taboo were drafted in the army and a very early stage and were offered as in the 1990s and 2000, people succeeded influence in west african politics, relations defend, but they want to set themselves up as a mediator and governments and he did that by cementing relationships and recruiting them into the military. there's a number of missiles and so-called black italian who were dominated by the florek and of course he saw the outcome of

that in the revolution when this sort of so-called mercenaries, which is a doubtful term turned out to be alleged to be fighting for gadhafi. in fact they were regular recruits in the army who were deployed in benghazi. after that it may come in june and july, a lot of them simply left in the back. and it can, i don't talk about them as much as they should come up when you talk about the arab tribes they are deeply marginalized and discriminated again. they too were offered various or does low level jobs in the army attorney services and not was why there is such a bedrock of things. so that's my little sort of social history. the 2.2 want to take, first come

of the decree of marginalization and discrimination of these communities together with their social affluence is ready match no reasonable sort of option in life other than trade. and secondly, this is when i talk about now is at the same time those groups who has an implanted econ again with the rest of the disaster from the same communities at the same time engaging in cross-border trade and also starting to low levels, the police and the army that are supposed to govern these orders as well. and that is where you have a very, very deep entrenched problem. the way in which gadhafi's libya tried to monitor the importers was extremely fragmented, extremely weak.

i talked to military authors as well who took mere reciprocity and the degree of ceballos says of military and defense establishments had the smugglers. for example, a base -- i'll try and use this now, there you go, write to me. the dedication of a large military base since chadian morrison is also one of the major entry points for human traffickers coming through murzuq. one comes to sedan, largely somali for east african and cemented. as the mountains here that they could do go through as well.

tacklers actually bring the military commanders of those spaces and find out what policy is. the policies at various points either favor african immigration or when he was trying to placate the european powers. more generally are mormon family if you like, for simply a taboo police officer or something who wanted to visit a relative, the legal way of going through this border points have multi-day delays with tariffs and bribes. so it's easiest to route around that have a nominal citizenship. you don't need to borrow so much about things like that. they're actually tallying the

governor there around. there's a few kilometers down the road. that's when i talk about the ceballos has come the kind of thing i talk about and the start of those -- the low-level were dominated by links that have a proper formatting around and higher up the chain of authority and gadhafi's libya, you have the government administration, but they weren't the ones that the real power. the people with the middlemen are leaders at the office. they would take cuts of business profits going to the region. so there is an obvious basic corruption element to it.

one is the interior of the ministry was powerless and secondly the middlemen were about the bureaucratic protocol is able to profit in them. so that is the system that libya has now inherited a news that the twin problem is geographically difficult and diverse debate and socially never doing so in a consistent way. even in much of these areas, even gadhafi's military was so fragmented, they had not answered to the same guy, which gadhafi sat on, controlled.

that was how the attack individually to the case, were people like his son and since he was a young guy. ironically, gadhafi's military is not dissimilar to what she's seen no along the quasi-illegal brigade. so you have to not only simply provide policymakers come at the u.n. and e.u. in various bilaterals that'll may have to provide the obvious security solutions, better surveillance technology, that kind of thing. you have to joke roundup of performing these institutions and that's a really big challenge because you can get the best sort of technological solutions in the world to an institution that is inherently dysfunctional compromise and it's a very short policy. you also have to deal with

social issues, the fact of the taboo world. they join the revolution very early on and one of the things they did as their hopes to regain citizenship, which gadhafi would requisition from them. in 2007 he stripped a whole load, which was some very severe fight in the country. you have to do at that as well. so i'm going to leave it there. i've made central points clear, but essential argument. [inaudible conversations] >> i don't think it has been done since the romans. i think i'll highlight some of

what peter and fred were saying and come up with a solution because it's a problem. i want to start by saying gadhafi and his sons was a statesmen rna country. he was a conflict creator and manager of conflict. that's what he does. that's his job. there is no right to create the conflict and manager. libya to gadhafi was a tool and instrument at all. i haven't seen them develop anything for the last 40 years. no institutions, no country because his goal has been all the time to use this tool and instrument for the regional global code. that's how he's projecting himself at the level of the arab

world in the global scene. that's why we've seen and been left with ms to peter and fred were talking about. if we look at it, i think we will have to say we are now faced by rebuilding our created a new country in a sense that the new institution. there is no -- there is nothing to really build on except the will of the people who wanted to be a society and a united country with some potential of success. and libya also because of what you see, the peripheral and the conflict within libya brief scene would have been that the

ambassador here in the last couple weeks such as the conflict there was ensued before that. good pr, even though it wasn't a strategic country, it is becoming strategic because the region and globally. it has to be a shift in how we do this country in that sense. this is something we have to keep in mind. of course, border of tribes will always do business. they don't caught smuggling. the car transportation business.

and i pulled them within the society with the idea to change jobs and careers. they are and to meteor from tribes, not because they socially improve the regime pulled. they are more or less making business transactions create another point of contact in some other areas so they can use it to do their business. i'm both a taboo are living in a vast area. they are involved with everybody who used to be involved in them. they used to be trafficking goods. now they are trafficking weapons and drugs. they are interacting and

colombian cartels. now they are doing business with these tribes and the santan is also becoming part of the global enterprise of some sort. so can the government manage all this? now, i don't think it can. that is where libya and the fishes become a region of issue and if you ended being and trafficking humans and gaddafi was using that, then what kind of solution will be taking regional solution? that is how we should look at the issue. going back to libya, an

excellent paper by fred has a couple of things. i think he got it right at every level with the militias and who was where and doing what. i just want to add a couple of things, that we had somehow what i would call develop over time the ed homan alliance. gadhafi managed for a long time. he brought them in an overtime he had handlers for them within the security forces. he knows the weaknesses, he knows how to manipulate them. gadhafi is gone, but the leftover of the security forces are still there. they're infiltrating and they manipulate them. after that, some of hq, al qaeda

from the european and insula are involved. so while it may be a misguided extremist people, there are the other two smarter elements playing them and using them. technically the three of them agree on some tactical goals for nasa brings them together and strategically they are different. you know, al qaeda wants to launch an attack against the united states or warp. so if there is lander area where they can do that, they will be very happy. they have sharia and lamenting islam and that works well, survey or something to agree on for a short period of time.

but there is far more security apparatus of the handlers and are very interested in the lack of stability. the chaos in the country works well. the people of the militia, including sharia and the country are will stay. the forces of armenians will be no militias. so all of that work cannot sense. that's why we have seen some of the very well organized that are very targeted and the consulate was well-planned, even to the point that we don't want to admit here because we don't want

to give al qaeda a lot of credit, which we shouldn't anyways. but i think there is this alliance is holding and taking plays announces making a dangerous in a sense. what happened after the attack of the demonstration by the libyans and then guys they reject bad the militias. this is an opportunity for the government, but the problem that we have, people who are very naïve are reactionaries and reactive. they react to issues. the claim that should be 48 hours and they could not in

force and so would be to wish you what they cannot enforce. it is better not to issue to issue and when you cannot fulfill. at the same times, most of these issues have to be solved politically and socially. they cannot be solved literally. you cannot go right now and invade. you should've done that as a long time ago. you have to invade and use propaganda, and were kept from inside out, not from the outside and. otherwise you would have a problem. libyans don't have and need a lot of help by that level.

they think they know everything, that they don't need anybody's help. that ignorance is very hard to deal with and that's an attack to people who try to help the libyans in the united states here in the nation, they have from the libyans themselves to do it ourselves. but you don't know how to do it. lastly i have to point to what fred said about themselves are also not divided. they go political perko extreme. they tried their luck at the political arena by running and

they did not succeed. they will become extreme or they will try again with the government sophisticated enough to have a seat for everybody at the table create a roundtable, including the extremists, so you have an issue of discussion within the cannes jury. if they don't sit at that table, they'll sit at the al qaeda table or someone else's table. the government has yet to have a strategy enjoyed with the scripps and that is where one of the biggest problems are. we are here at the level of discussion and they should provide some of the workable solutions because i don't think they can do it on their own,

even though they do and they will get to a point to be there when they need it. >> thank you to all three of you. let me open up the discussion to question. it is very simple. those of us who had some formal training as political scientists, listening to three of the speakers, particularly to fred and peter. something that jumps up immediately as the component of the state if you look at the classical definition of your state towards a basic component of this state and libya. one is them or not only, and the

other is control of the border. so essentially what we are dealing with is really much of a shallow nsn that one step beyond what he talked about in the institutions, which is totally true. but it's not only the institution, it's the stated self that really mattered at this state here. the question i want to pose, specifically to fidel, that everybody else, but my question is that is a conversation we have that after you meeting here, where he was arguing, if i am correct, the best way to bring the militia and control is

to do it locally and internationally. there's perhaps more possibility essentially at that level to then try to get this militia to a central government. in a sense, something that fred said that ties into it when he talks about the fact in pounds, ngos, local groups, tribes and women sometimes, and indicate very localized reaction from what is happening. i would like all of you to comment on this. >> very quickly, i think you're absolutely right. i still think his ties to the locals because you have the hollow shell of the central government.

there is a complete disconnection between the local and the center. there is so much at tbd and so much things can be done at the local level that will reflect and improve the situation in the national level at the center was able to benefit and coordinate some of this effort. it is not being done and that's why we have a lot of problems because some of these militias are with our regional and local militias. the problem are so vocal and regional. i think it is more the government that does not work with the local level, be at the local council, elected local council and the tribes and everything. i think we may end up with a

wider conflict and libya. >> i completely agree. they have a real sensitivity to the hyper centralization, so i think we calibrating the balance between local and central government is key in how that plays out in the military serious critical. many militias are creating facts on the ground. they've created their own coalitions in the last end misurata in the east, said the sort of regional armies are already there and the national army remains a hollow force. if top-heavy and filled with colonels and generals and painted by his association with the gadhafi regime. so moving forward with the creation of the national army, there must be some meeting between the sources. the national army cannot take on these regional groups. there has to be, as fadel mentioned it is political or mostly about winning the

confidence of these regions and convincing them to make the government halfway terms of integrating their forces. so they attack in the national guard like for his come up national guard has constituted in this country. in some sense the libyans showed for says are already is like that. in fact, in the date senior commander in misurata who was posing a situation where the field would be like a military shield for us. this sounded like to me was a thinly good time to keep his militia and reading habits are wary ready. we didn't like the secret call on this militia. you know, so the government has to tread a think very carefully on this. we are already seeing in the east of the tab to do but fadel

mentioned in the appointing army officers over two of these islamist brigade that were attacked by the february 17th brigade. they are now under nominal supervision of these national army officers. what production remains in part this remains to be seen, but it just urges the government is aware that it is not the authority or firepower to take on militias had on. >> from the very beginning, most militia arms groups, brigade, nonstate group had demonstrated and expressed an appetite to be part of the billing of the new libyan state. that's a good game. that's a very good thing. these groups have no legitimacy, no narrative in the way a militia group like hezbollah or

hamas has a narrative. to use the legend of resistance to justify their independence in the states. they don't have that, even in the cases that support federalism. they don't have that. that is a great balance, long-term is a great balance in favor of the libyan states in terms of eventually being able to look at whether they vote out programs to get militia members in. the good news is that has been taken and interested in. the big question is, as he says, what are you talking about when you talk about the libyan state? are we attacking about militia groups joining the remnants of gadhafi's military? especially in the west as well when communities are particular

communities to dominate the military apparatus. but certainly they mess around at the. that is the issue. like for me, the danger right now is the army is now doing post-september 11, the interior ministry did nine or 12 months ago, pretty much wholesale and grow a brigade. you are now functioning on the other half. great, but the militia group still has autonomy as a weapon, autonomy as a group to mess around with signs, double-dip. it seems to me the army is now going down that route. i spoke to the brother. all they simply done this but

one guy, assigned one national army are good. except him and that's good news because it's all positive stuff. the militia group is still there and operating in the authority. so that to me is the danger. but i think the army has to do is disaster with her missiles as well. that is a huge undertaking. it's a top-heavy institution full of colonels and generals. most recruits wouldn't go into the army. they go into gadhafi's brigade because you can armor driving a truck and gadhafi's brigade and in the national army. gadhafi squashed the army. so they have to begin again. it's going to be a multiyear job. the best thing is to start with a singular italian and give a

new entity, appoint office is to both militias and the army. start that way. start and grow up. >> without them. please pray for the microphone and identify yourself when used pete. i see one over there. and one over here. >> john hot dense, thank you for recognizing this piano. i would like to ask a question to fadel lamen. i remember you giving a speech two months ago with the aftermath of the elections. do you see the role that i

haven't really hurt hurt to mention that? and actually threatening the situation and libya and also, -- [inaudible] do you think is going to be up to a challenge to breach the gap between security situation now and the relations with the u.s.? >> let me take another one here and apply to all of them. >> and from the university of maryland. it seems that gadhafi was gone until the events of a few weeks ago. have we invested in soft culture, say like movies or music or business or ngos, especially getting to the local

level because he made mention the social culture has no opportunities whatsoever to get into smuggling and drug stuff. have you been in all of this in gadhafi left? could we have resented the events of the embassy? >> okay, let's open it up. he's looking at you. >> very quickly, gadhafi's kaizen fled to egypt. he has a lot of money and a lot of influence. he moved and he is a troublemaker and libya. there is no doubt about it. there's a couple of incidents is that they try to smuggle some forces to blow up some of the oil installation in the south,

but it was taking care of by some of the allies and that was good. but ultimately they have to be brought to the table. you may not be the not be the table in the second of the militia, but another table at another level. they tried raising initiators of some sort, but he did not prepare the ground for the backfire and ultimately you have to reach out as part of the transition. as far as brochure, he is the best among the people among the prime minister's amazing gsm capability to learned from mistakes, from the government mistakes and hopefully he will do better. but definitely as for his political savvy, he needs a lot of help. that's all i can say.

>> with regard to the breach, the zephyrs released by the u.s. were ongoing while gadhafi was in power. with a public diplomacy program, sending students on full price, trying even in those dark times to reach out to the libyan populace. since it's only increased in places like the east and specially around the time of the elections. and i was there and there was a nervous average western ngos to the libyan populace, across the spectrum. there is tremendous receptiveness to that. know what that prevent the attack? know because these militias were sort of these autonomous islands that were vehemently opposed to interaction with the west. i mean, we saw them attacking these western icons. you know, they were waylaid

against the u.s. presence in the country and in social media they were talking about the u.s. using libya as a base to flatulence as a launching pad for counterterrorism. so there were these wellsprings of anti-americanism. the best outreach going onto these groups like the sharia was their fellow islamists who had made the journey towards a more pragmatic political stance in some of these people and the muslim brotherhood, the koran moved the olympia because they could talk in the same vocabulary. they said look, you're entitled to have hard-line views on sharia, even on anti-americanism, but you cannot do it through force of law. so the outreach was ongoing as well. so my point in my presentation was i think some humbleness about what the u.s. can accomplish in this country in some respect for the libyan's ability to regulate their own society and police themselves.

>> i would echo that point. i think average, soft power stuff, training, that sort of thing has largely bypassed the militias or the groups. it has been extremely evident elsewhere in the libyan society, particularly in urban areas with some exceptions. there's this thing called the world affairs committee, the office training to brigade leaders. i attended one training seminar where they got it uae to come over and they had this interesting discussion. it is 50% with management leadership gains we've got to join the lines of that sort of thing and 50% discussion about elections and what was going on and everything. regardless of that particular

example, there's simply no profound outreach or trading militia groups. one of the reasons may be because governments can't -- i don't think governments can do it. they have to go through the army, the ministry of defense and terror which has their own agenda on reasons for not reaching out directly. they tend to keep their training and that kind of thing inside. i have no reason -- no answer for how to get around the pier and more broadly, it is not simply a lot of help. there is an amazing amount of initiative. again, it's mostly aaa and benghazi that we see up most evidently. but i'm talking about for example 2230 euros getting together and training themselves election monitors, opportunists and to be sure to observe the

elections, working with ngos in germany and egypt in various areas to develop this awareness of what's going on. i mean, seriously cool stuff. that is in the civilian space, not tear in the youth militias who are largely unknown plague young guys who do need something to do with their lives, who do need a serious one training. and i've got to side the security thing, and a coup for a semi-state affairs and conflict. the arab tribes are building a war now to block themselves off the taboo areas. i don't think any ngo would have the security or insurance. again, the seats of frozen conflicts are very, very minimal. >> this while you were talking about was imported by one of the

ngos from the united states ideas. >> if i can just add quickly a more general point, the use of soft power, the culture of regions, i think if you look at public opinion polls around the arab world, for example, which you see as a real discrepancy between the ideals that people have towards united states is a country. so there is really no clear indication that each of us soft archery programs, really by an understanding or acceptance of u.s. policies. the theme to travel and different directions. in the opinion polls, everywhere in the arab world, it is totally

different at the cultural level and on the political level. the schism or questions,, ladies and gentlemen eared okay, one, two and three back there. >> michael brekke from the united states department of energy for discussion. i was curious if your perspective how likely it is the intentions are described will affect oil production in the near term or two outside production to production or exports or deterring and is mostly a foreign investment. thank you good >> okay, yes, gentlemen and the blue shirt over there. sorry about that. i didn't see the woman.

>> i guess my question is more directed to mr. frederick. trauma and your knowledge of all states and similar dynamics with regard to competing militias unlock a central government control in to a degree a call for regional autonomy. what kind of lessons on returning from the states states and also specifically with these dynamics in both states, what and how can the u.s. be supportive in their tansitions? >> okay, let's take it to the person in the back that i could not see. >> hi, robert morrow from the american libya chamber of commerce industry. we have seen a number of american companies chomping at the bit to look at the opportunities in libya. again, a variety of different set is, all of which brought up today. given the fact several of you have been there recently, spent time there recently, from the

perspective we've had in the north, it seems security is not that big of a consideration, but which are perspective having been there recently as a westerner, have you felt any threats to your%? would it be advisable for american companies to wait for the time being or is it a good opportunity to start looking at opportunities now? >> okay, since he was the last one, i will start with you this time. >> all deal with the commercial question first. i mean, on the commercial side of his there for 13 million borodin have a security detail. i had a fairly low profile. ..

that kind of thing is frowned upon. in fact they issued a decree banning it. it doesn't mean it's law, it's a kind of ambiguous transitional legal -- for the moment you have to go with libyan security. what else can i say? i think that companies investing in will ya now, relationship is a huge patientty. the start-up costs the foreign business has to bear in libya is significant.

the restrictions or the legal environment -- [inaudible] you have the business, you can earn so much stock. that will change the government has bigger fish to fry. i don't expect the much change in the next year. i expect a lot of -- [inaudible] authority in places like that. but still now it's probably the time to go and actually start creating relationships that sustain you in the long-term. >> with regard to the question on the oil, i mean, this is a real concern in the east, and what we saw just prior to the july 7th election was a [inaudible] group that shut down the oil facility company and certainly this issue of oil as a leverage by groups in the east, i think could emerge. i'm not a specialist on oil, a technical details, it's a

definitely a concern with spoke with there. there's another dimension that stands with the conflict down in the south, the way enterprise is the party toot conflict. they are there, but the triable belt extends all the way up. and that whole area, there's a lot of oil felgd. by about 11% of libya's oil they work as guards they've threatened i don't know if they could make got good on it. they threatened to shut down production if the government did not help. it demonstrates the conflicts here the eastern issue or the other places, they affect the whole of libya because of this oil issue the issue of yemen. i'm struggling with parallels.

i think the fundamental issue in yemen, so you have a sitting government that has really squandered the legitimate sei and the constitutions are the problem with governance. where as in libya you're starting from scratch. there are no constitutions. the triable system, tribes are a slippery slope i don't think we have time to get to the distinction between yemen and libyan society. i adopt think there is as stark in libya as they are in yemen that is not has not be solidified and formalized to the degree it is in yemen. the same thing with the societal division. you don't have in libya the equivalent in the north and the -- you don't have the eastern issue that i mentioned here has not evolved in to a full fledged succession effort that you see among in yemen. and lastly, al qaeda, has not

asheaved a -- achieved a similar foothold we see in yemen. there's the murmurs in al qaeda in libya. there's a chatter and from al qaeda and -- there are jihad itself groups in ben gassy that appear to be facilitated. but the actual operational are still -- you don't have an entire region of governance that is fallen to al qaeda like you do in yemen. >> very quickly on the oil thing. i think it's a fact that the only constitution that was working was the last years was the oil sector. we kept it away at the control run it as a business, and i think it's continued to function that way. there are some problem with having a military of oil and the national oil company, which is

the [inaudible] institution that runs that. there is some conflict and a liability little bit of fight over control. i was having -- [inaudible] the that was taken over by the guys from the east, and phone call came and the guy the head of the group was talking to a [inaudible] and i said to him, tell them there is a deadline. and he was -- [inaudible] at that level he became very forceful and sensitive institution and you or anybody else would never be allowed to threaten this institution, and if i have to call on-air power, i will. and he made a statement and we have not seen a petition of that level. so i think when it comes to oil, if it's threatened, the i think the libyans in general will be

anonymously in protecting that institution. [inaudible] >> the situation for the [inaudible] >> the situation for the american companies, i think it's -- there is the issue of permanent elements, the kidnaps and will are some ransom and all this kind of stuff. for libyans as for american, the value of the person -- how you can get out of it. [laughter] [inaudible] [laughter] >> all right. thank you. but i think it's a -- i think i would suggest that people have to a few more weeks as those things settle down and the even the country, i mean, there is a a warning for traveling to libya. it still stands. several of the people are going

back next week. i'm going back on saturday. my deputy will be working with me, she's an american lawyer, and we will ease in her to tripoli, in the next few weeks, hopefully,ic we have to be very careful. in overall in the major city, there is no problem. if you travel outside tripoli or ben gassy especially if you travel the south it's better to travel air travel, not to travel by car. and there are some security things that people have to keep in mind. but overall, i think people are anxious to have -- i think one of the biggest things that made the libyans angry is the incident that took place in benghazi is going to drive companies and investments and business away, and they were unhappy with that. they have been working very hard, the revolution and everything to be very associated

libya with the rest of the world and they felt that can be a big setback. >> i'll keep that in mind. >> thank you. let have another round of questions. i think you -- [inaudible] we have one here. right here. [inaudible] the executive intelligence review. the events in the over the weekend of the after the death of the ambassador, we had these demonstrations against the militia, one of the result was that leaders said the weapons had been stolen by demonstrators. these things seem to get recycled around somewhere and how of control again. with the ambassador gone and the cia team out, one of the big things was looking for the stuff

and so on. and how do you assess the impact of the situation as a reducing the ability of the government to control the prefer really a problems we're talking about? >> there was one -- yeah. we have two. hi, matt bennett with the bureau and state department. i have a question for fred, and for others, but fred, because you mentioned it in your report. you talked about some of the earths to work with ddr type rams for those who have been in the revolution. you mentioned the warriors affairs counsel. it sounded like it was a promising start for an as avenue at channel for people to engage their efforts, the way to kind of show those who had not been militants for very long before starting another way to get back in life and kind of deal with reconciliation and over fronts. do you see it being lost in the shuffle as we have new ministers

being brought in government, there's have been talk of that. it has been a promising channel. in to the international community? >> thank you. over here. no. the gentleman right here. [inaudible] >> sorry. thank you. ben, cornell university. my question was related to the first two about concern of weapons and weapons proliferation. i guess i want to broaden it more general and return to a similar theme the panel lises brought up about the difference between -- local, reaming nap and the national government. and if a concern such as weapons being taken might be one avenue new to sort of be a common cause that might allow for connection between top, bottom, center, or

left. so, thank you. >> okay. [inaudible] let me tackle the issue of the ware yours affairs commission, and much my information stems from my interview with the people in july. i agree it was a promising program. it was hobbled at that time by lack of buy in from other military. it was seen as a unilateral -- to my knowledge they didn't make a lot of progress with the first of all establishing a data base of the revolutionaries and i think peter and i both saw the actual registration forms. they were very thorough about gathering information about these young revolution theirs to

include their hometown where they went school and vetting. you have a number of tiers, there was a huge waif of people that signed up. en and they vetted people from that number, there were some that selected. they were clearly doing their homework because the concern, obviously, there were a lot of opportunists that come in. people that didn't really fight in the revolution or weren't part of the militia. the problem was lack of funding, i think, and i think lack of buy in from certain militia, and i think especially in [inaudible] which always had the sort of go at it alone approach and well organized with the militia and mistrustful. they don't of want to surrender or give the central government a list of the young men with the personal data. what that is a gaffe -- it's

classic central disawtion. you're surrendering this. and obviously the issue of manpower. he was involved with guarding the border and obviously he was making a lot of money from this. and he had his own little personal empire. he said it is an academic exercise. he used those terms. if i'm a kind that is building a thief come to suddenly volunteer to surrender this. the whack was aware of this and the solution was we're going go directly to the young men. here is where outreach nodes to happen. you tell the young man your future doesn't allow with your militia commander. it lies with the state. you serve the noble aim fighting the revolution but that's over. you need to join the legitimate army and police. here's a scholarship study

abroad training behind vocation. that was the theory behind that guy web it was a good program. head said we're going straight to the young men. we're circumventing the militia commanders and the regional military counsel, there's this -- they weren't buying in to it. i don't maybe peter can jump in. i don't know if real life has been in to program it came down to funding and the legacy problem. >> yeah. i agree with pretty much everything fred just said. it was a hidden -- from the beginning. in january, i think, i think it had 250,000 at one point. and ealing the militia come out and if we had 250,000 people pighting for it it would have been other in weeks. with the problems aside how

great the unemployed kids are submitting in the forms in the hope of getting, you know, jobs and employment in the state. that's a good thing. it should be encouraged. i think that the -- [inaudible] it was? january and had a big headline offed million in funding. they never got it. it was a largely administrative exercise to build the stay data base from which the military and emperor defense. it hasn't achieved that. they have done their own thing. which we talk about the problems which -- brigade also and the labor stuff has got started yet because of the construction projects started yesterday. it's still again you said an exercise. it's a -- i don't think it should be -- i think it is

continuing. [inaudible] he has this. and like i would describe the main militia coalition as a cynical corporation. i mean, the deputy of benghazi has an office in the revolutionary brigade. the large nest the east, and and the deputy has an office in the building. there was a regular presence. and it's probably the best if no the only grassroots outreach operation going. i should have mentioned the question about [inaudible] so it shouldn't be written up. [inaudible] >> okay. very quickly about the work. i think sister -- there are some by some of the groups like [inaudible]

ultimately the future of libya lay in the hands of the two if they become troublemakers. but i think some of them, they looked at and looked at some of the people in the -- and the personality and the personnel and said, these are muslim brotherhood. these have some affiliation and they want to control us and we don't want to look tat. i don't think they looked at it from a institution from a personal or sec starn or ideological and decide that will not work for us. we're not going incorporate it. i think that's where the problem is. maybe help. i don't know. >> i actually agree. we had the reputation of throwing the weight around almost as if he was a minister equivalence for awhile. that was a -- there were

definitely personality issues. >> as part of the weapons . >> you're right about the weapons. they did go inside in to these camps and i was talking to a few people yesterday and they said that some of the weapons were taken out, and but they ended up in the market being sold. so the government maybe -- [laughter] did a good job getting them and put them in a more secure place this time. but i think the question will be how can the government devalue weapons? you have to think that to find the way the whoever has the weapons will not -- they will become useless. i think. you come to that point people will start selling them or getting rid of them. i think that is a value. they can use them to impose the

wealth or gain or negotiate or somehow, you know, blackmail them. i think they have values. if there is process that can devalue the weapons. the i think the people will be giving them for free after awhile. >> [inaudible] the as i understand, i haven't been to benghazi what happened with regard to taking control over the [inaudible] there was a command structure. the national army didn't have to give them the orders to move. there has been no attempt to -- and with the groups abandon that position from what i understand of benghazi don't have any sort of [inaudible]

here but vacated their basis and their position. they used to be [inaudible] and they have scattered and done on the ground. the same in -- as well the troops voluntarily withdrawal. i think your question has been happened. has it actually helped the government gain control over situations? >> yeah within i think that is a concern i have heard echoed from benghazi. they were used to have openly operated troops that you could which you could have a conversation. we now have . >> you push them underground. >> right. >> okay. i'll take one more round of questions. yes. it. >> david mack, the middle east sphiewt. institute. my question to any of the three

who can answer it. who provides security at the hospital in benghazi? >> okay. there is a second one. matthew cook from the university of indiana. my question is what are the chances that when the country becomes a little bit more stablized either the united states or the u.n. had deploy troops to help train the militia and national army and will this become like where as iraq where we had a standing army we could help train in a short amount of time. will we have to start over like in afghanistan where we had to start from the scratch and build them up? >>. >> yes. we have one more here and that will be the last question. [inaudible] >> my question kind of piggy backs on the last one.

basically, peter, you mentioned talking about a sits emic problem and the policy needs to move toward a grassroots approach and something that addresses the socialist issues and else. as i was saying and this is for any of you, what can a policy of the united states take on to help with the institutions that grassroots things built in to that to help the problem? >> don't know about the hospital. i know, -- vai indicated it. i have heard that one of these sanction militia stepped? february 17, or perhaps the national army. i don't know. i don't know if peter knows for sure. the national army training. it's an issue dear to my heart. as i served as a military [inaudible] in libya before the revolution in 2009, and then just before in 2011. the u.s. is, you know, actively

aware of the need to get this army back on the feet? such a way that is a respectful of civil mill relation and seize an opportunity for partnership here. it's treading for carefully i think because it doesn't want a large footprint in the country, and because the receiving end, the libyans themselves there isn't the organization within the ministry of defense to even start asking for help. the basic staff function of a ministry of defense or a military in which you reck situation arms. you plan training and set your priority and doctrine. it wasn't there partly as a result of the revolution but also partly because of the way he ran his military. it was personalized and gutted intentionally all of the staff functions were gutted. what i hear in the u.s. military it's baby steps. we are really startings from

scratch. i think a priority is going to be training a new generation of libyan officers specifically at the field and company rate level. there's a top heavy, there's enough counselors and generals to go around. the real weight of an army is missing. that's why we need to focus our efforts. i understand there's a lot of programs underway through imeds to get libyan officers to send them abroad for school. there's programs by some of our partner nations with the turks, the jour dane began, the libyan police outside the country, some of them have got gone that well. we can talk about that in the a little bit. but just to echo peter's point. what we find from the libyan military is a very ad hoc shopping list they want these shiny pieces of equipment that will help them big the biggest

cat around town. they need have bigger toys than the accomplish listsha. they are asking for helicopters and humvees in the wrong way. you need to address the institution on the organizational problems before you give them the shin any toys. equipment. we're taking baby steps. i think an jonch arching priority is minimal presence in the country. >> yeah. i absolutely agree in talking about building a new institution from scratch in case of the army and also in the interior ministry as well. libya, the police force was certainly not equipped to go after armed groups, it was actually a fairly bureaucratic administrative function as are frofl -- they were guying who kept their own things. they have to be dissolved completely.

[inaudible] i'll give you an example of how he was unable to say who he had to ask in the government to actually start reck suggestioning such equipment. the horizontal connection between military the don't exist. that's the point. you can't go to the military of planning or economy and there's going to be a guy there in charge of budgeting for that kind of stuff using -- that kind of budgetary what's the word i'm look forking? delegation. it doesn't exist. and that's one of the

fundamental things. on training, you -- i mentioned early yrp on the national army, the national army is top heavy and recruits went in to -- [inaudible] the police training programs in jordan ended interestry from the training sensor was set on fire. you have different programs wraps up by the libyan government in embarrassment. and those people there were insulted. they were kind of trigger happy untrained civilian. it was a mixed training program as well. the level of discipline and the development of the core identity has to be created and developed. and there has to be -- [inaudible] , i mean, you mentioned training actually like fiscal training with the u.s. there's a sen to that. you can find